The Flying Boat Forum from www.seawings.co.uk

[abewsed]

Hi everyone,
I have been researching the crash of Sunderland Mk III, W4026. This is the aircraft that crashed into a hillside (Eagles Rock) in Caithness, Scotland, in which the Duke of Kent was killed. Over the last 8 years I have been involved in trying to find out how exactly the Sunderland managed to crash into the side of Eagles Rock, without hitting the side of other larger hills. I have also worked alongside Stephen Prior and his team who researched mysteries and whilst I do not agree with his book “Double Standards” and Hess being involved in the crash, it was his team that got my interest in the crash.

Over the years I have managed to acquire some lost photos of the site and some artefacts. I have some pieces of the wreck and I am trying to find out where exactly these pieces came from, on the Sunderland. What I really need is the whole schematics of a Sunderland MKIII, but this is wishful thinking as this would be massive. Also I live in Thurso, Caithness and getting to Public Records (Kew) is a journey in itself, even if I knew what I was looking for, as what I know about engineering would take up the space of a postage stamp!

I was hoping that this forum could identify exactly where the pieces of wreckage came from. The pieces are coded…

Plate #1
S25020022
30F ZN (the Z & N are imposed on each other, forming and X in a square)
SB45S
I know the S25 is the code for the Sunderland, whilst 0 could be a O and the last 2 might be a number or it could be a scar. Leaving the code being S25O2002.

Plate#2
294FT or 294TT
D?0026

Plate#3
Bx8
RIX (with a 3 underneath, with RIX – 3 inside a circle)
FB99399.A

A bolt 86820 or B6820.

If the forum cannot ID the parts, is there any place that I can write to that has the schematics of a Sunderland that might be able to ID that part.

Another piece of information I need is what is the turning circle of a Sunderland MKIII.

Lastly where can I acquire the weather for RAF Wick and Invergordon on 25th August 1942?

My aim is to try and piece together what exactly caused W4026 to crash into a hillside in Caithness. I have my own idea of what exactly happened on 25th August 1942. The advantage I have over most others who have written about the crash, is that I have been at the crash site numerous times and have interviewed others who were at the crash site.

I know this is a lot of information I am after and you might not be able to give me the answers, but as the saying goes, “if you don’t ask….” So any help will be much appreciated. But this site seems to have the most knowledge of a Sunderland flying boat.

Cheers

[khjw]

The R.A.F. Museum have a list of Sunderland plans from Shorts (regretably not a full set) some of which have part numbers. Copies are available at a decent price

Ken

[TASSE]

Hi
Go to Members list & send an email to Bill Mortimer.

TASSE

[Pondskater]

Hi,

The RIX 3 in a circle sounds very much like an inspector's stamp - unfortunately, it doesn't help to ID parts. There is one on this piece, from a different Sunderland, and different inspector:



Can the pieces be identified at all from their shape or are they just fragments - like this piece, coincidentally with the part number FB99398.A - just one digit different from yours but I can't work out what it's from!



If you can post pics of them it might help. Unfortunately I don't know of a list of Sunderland part numbers that would help you.

Allan

[abewsed]

Hi all,
Thanks for the advice. As for photos, I will get them displayed later. Allan’s last photo shows the same part as Plate#3, you can just make out the same numbers on it. So Allan if you know where that piece came from, then we have cracked one of the items.

The numbers on Plates#1 & #2 are off the same piece. The item is a T shaped piece of metal and aluminium. There are two identification plates on each side, which are about 1/8” thick and about 1 3/4" x 1 5/8”, these are bolted together on both sides of the T frame with four 1” long 3/16” thread and 5/16” bolts. The T bracket is 1 1/4" at the top of the T and about 1/8” wide. The Plates seem to be stainless steel, but it could be aluminium, I am not sure. So these codes would seem to indicate the same area.

Cheers
Davy

[Pondskater]

Davy,

I've looked into it a bit more and FB is used to identify parts from the Bristol Aeroplane Company. Put simply it means that both of the parts - yours and the one I saw, are in some way connected with the Bristol Pegasus engines on the MkIII Sunderland.

The Short Brothers' parts will be labeled SB or S25.

That's one step closer.

Allan

[abewsed]

Hi Allan,
Sorry for not getting back sooner, but I spent the whole of yesterday trying to find a plan for a Bristol Pegasus engine and downloading photos of the engines. What you are saying, that the part FB99399.A, comes from an engine area makes sense and seems to fit my theory that the Sunderland did not impact where everyone thinks it did. If I am correct then every investigation into the crash has got it wrong so far. So far anyone who has investigated the crash has 1/ never been to the crash site, or 2/ assumed that the impact mark (V) on the aerial photo is where the nose of Sunderland has impacted, with scars of the floats on boat sides. Then in front are the scars of the wings and engines. This in turn flipped the Sunderland on its back. The only problem is that the “V” hole is only about 6ft wide, not enough for a 50 ton Sunderland whose whole nose and front end had to disintegrate before the wings and engines impacted into the ground.

It took me three goes to try and find this hole (V) when I visited the site. The reason being is that it is now overgrown with heather. However this is the hole where all the parts I have, has come from. So in theory any parts embedded in the hole should have come from the nose section and not from the engine area.

Thanks for the info and as you say it is one step closer.
Cheers
Davy.

PS. I am having trouble sending the aerial photo. I will try again later.