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COW DIY


 
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anax
The Gorgeous One


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 297



PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: COW DIY Reply with quote

After discussing it with a few people it seems there might be support for the idea of introducing something along the lines of a clue-writing contest.
It's very early stages, of course, as this polls forum is in its infancy, but you never know - there could be 10,000 regular visitors by this time next year. Probably not, though.
There is currently no concept of how the contest will run, whether it will merit its own voting poll etc., and it goes without saying that I will not participate - I'll just present words/phrases to be clued. I'd guess it will run on a weekly basis.
Just to test the water, I'll start the ball rolling with the first challenge:

SERPENTINE

There are no rules as such, beyond the fact that clues should adhere as much as possible to Times style. I've always believed, however, that S, M and L = small, medium and large respectively are perfectly acceptable.
Off you go, then.
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boxwood



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 66



PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endlessly pertinent SE winding river (10)
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Serpentine Reply with quote

Wriggling, wriggling creature on end of fork? No time for it! (10)
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anax
The Gorgeous One


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 297



PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: And so to bed Reply with quote

With plans afoot to change the format of this (it WILL continue in some form) I'll close the first DIY COW now.

Both offerings are excellent and the only thing that swings my choice in favour of Boxwood's clue is that it feels more Times-y. Johanssons' clue is marvellously visual and would sit extremely well in a Guardian puzzle, while Boxwood has given a difficult word - Serpentine is deceptively awkward - a fine treatment.

Despite my earlier statement I couldn't resist having a play, solely because the first thing I spotted was the word PEN and its "birdlife" connection with the watery bit of Hyde Park. So in the end I plumped for:

Swan can inhabit dried-up lake in London (10)

I'll let you know when I decide how to continue the DIY COW thread. In the meantime, why not have a play with the next challenge? The word is:

BORSTAL
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boxwood



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 66



PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Borstal Reply with quote

Bore's talk sends Royal off to detention centre (7)
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 124



PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flats robber content to go back to prison (7)
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wilbo



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought of:

Brats, upset about nothing, left in detention centre (7)

Think it might be quite easy, though.

Will

p.s. If this lets me post, I haven't requested moderator status
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penfold_61 beat me to the 'flats robber' concept, so instead:

If court order starts to lose reaction transfer here. (7)

Stevo
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glheard



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boron or sulfur? Half of powder sends boy to jail. (7)

(yikes that's awkward)
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johanssons wrote:
Penfold_61 beat me to the 'flats robber' concept, so instead:

If court order starts to lose reaction transfer here. (7)

Stevo


Stevo, sorry for nicking your idea. I've looked at your clue just about every day for the last week and I still don't see it. Would you mind explaining?
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wilbo



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lab rats let loose? O for a place of confinement! (7)

Two clues is probably a bit cheeky, but I liked this one better.
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boxwood



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Borstal Reply with quote

Royal Saint, wrapped in boa, left for prison (7)

Last edited by boxwood on Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Cuckoo



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endless stampede about star playing part of Rochester

BOL(T) round STAR*; def. part of Rochester
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

penfold_61 wrote:
johanssons wrote:
Penfold_61 beat me to the 'flats robber' concept, so instead:

If court order starts to lose reaction transfer here. (7)

Stevo


Stevo, sorry for nicking your idea. I've looked at your clue just about every day for the last week and I still don't see it. Would you mind explaining?


There's the quick and the dead when it comes to publishing an idea; so it's all yours and no hard feelings!

As for my clue: I've been worried for that week that I went a level too far because I was so keen to use ASBO in the construction. (Now I think your question answers mine.) It's meant to be an anagram of 'court order' = ASBO + (starting letters) RTL; with what I hoped was a reasonably linked surface reading. Maybe I should have gone with "If ASBO begins to lose respect ..." ?

But in any case, many thanks for asking. Please let me know what you think!

Cheers,
Stevo
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 124



PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="johanssons"][quote="penfold_61"]
johanssons wrote:
As for my clue: I've been worried for that week that I went a level too far because I was so keen to use ASBO in the construction. (Now I think your question answers mine.) It's meant to be an anagram of 'court order' = ASBO + (starting letters) RTL; with what I hoped was a reasonably linked surface reading. Maybe I should have gone with "If ASBO begins to lose respect ..." ?

But in any case, many thanks for asking. Please let me know what you think!

Cheers,
Stevo


Ah. I had though of ASBO, but read it as ASBO losing its starting letters to leave BO, so I then couldn't make out how reaction = RSTAL. It may just have been me being thick. The surface works very well.
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilbo wrote:
I thought of:

Brats, upset about nothing, left in detention centre (7)

Think it might be quite easy, though.
...


Borrowing from your idea, another easy one: "How lost bra lead to confinement." [Apologies for also borrowing from your idea of submitting more than once...]
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anax
The Gorgeous One


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 297



PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: BORSTAL - Results Reply with quote

Clue-writing contest – BORSTAL
Some cracking entries for this one, and three stood out:

penfold_61
Flats robber content to go back to prison
This is my winner. It has real “Timesy” style and ticks the right boxes in several departments – it’s clever without being too difficult, makes great use of the “content” container indicator, reads well, and I’m sure would catch out many solvers who would go on to kick themselves when they see how easy the clue really is.

wilbo
Lab rats let loose? O for a place of confinement!
A brilliant effort this, as it manages to move us away from the “prison” idea and creates a very convincing alternative reading. It’s also very clever – the substitution of O for A in “lab rats” is something few setters would have noticed. I’ve awarded this second place because it reads slightly more like, say, a Guardian or Indy clue.

cuckoo
Endless stampede about star playing part of Rochester
Another cracker that creates an alternative surface image and incorporates very well observed wordplay. More in keeping with the Times than wilbo’s clue, although the “stampede about” is one of those phrases that seems desperately close to working, but not quite.

Thanks to everyone who submitted! And now, the next challenge. I’m looking for a Times-style cryptic clue for:

HEAVEN FORBID
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perish the thought even if had encircling orb (6,6)
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 124



PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first stab was:

Throw up twice in car after third pint? Not on your nelly! (HEAVE + N + FOR(BI)D)

But I’m told that brand names are a no-no (so no Ford), and that the “n” indicator would have to be “third of pint”. “Throw up twice in river crossing after third of pint” wouldn’t read as well so I went back to the drawing board and came up with this. Hopefully it isn’t over-laden with slang:

Not likely to pull, initially nervous of bird cracking up (6,6)
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anax
The Gorgeous One


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: BORSTAL - I couldn't resist Reply with quote

Penfold_61 offered, I think, the best clue for BORSTAL, and I must admit I struggled to find something original. Couldn't resist the challenge though;

Youth can shoot endlessly after taking back rifle (7)

STAL(k) after <ROB

"Youth can" is a bit sneaky but at least it allowed a smooth starting phrase.
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

penfold_61 wrote:


Not likely to pull, initially nervous of bird cracking up (6,6)


Congratulations on BORSTAL!

A quick query on "not likely" in this clue. My understanding is that 'heaven forbid' is just a wish that something won't happen. Does it really say anything about its likelihood?

Steve.
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johanssons wrote:
penfold_61 wrote:


Not likely to pull, initially nervous of bird cracking up (6,6)


A quick query on "not likely" in this clue. My understanding is that 'heaven forbid' is just a wish that something won't happen. Does it really say anything about its likelihood?

Steve.


A good question, and one that has caused me sleepless nights (well that, man flu and earthquakes).

I've used "not likely" in the vernacluar as an exclamation, on the basis that heaven forbid is sometimes used as a synonym for "over my dead body" rather than the intended usage of "please God, don't let it happen". e.g. Boy: "Mum, Dad, can Britney Spears come and live with us?". Mum:"Heaven forbid!"; Dad: "Not ruddy likely!".

I agree it might not be a strong enough link, but to clarify it's "Not likely" as in "No way Jose", rather than as in "unlikely".
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boxwood



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 66



PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject: HEAVEN FORBID Reply with quote

God, no! He is starting to change National Front leader's bra video (6,6)

Last edited by boxwood on Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: A proper one... Reply with quote

80% of serious bridge players favouring overcall say please, no? (6,6)
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7dNigePun



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bore I've upset with fine hand says "Don't let it happen" (6,6)

:0)
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7dNigePun



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't pull naughty words beginning with F or B I'd added. (6,6)
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Cuckoo



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have year away from boyfriend, working? Let's hope not

HAVE + BO(Y)FRIEND*; def. Let's hope not
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anax
The Gorgeous One


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 297



PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: HEAVEN FORBID - The Winner Reply with quote

For me, cuckoo's close-of-play clue is outstanding and very Times-y.

Have year away from boyfriend, working? Let's hope not (6,6)

Really good surface reading that paints a convincing picture. There's a chance an editor might grumble about part of the anagram fodder being followed by an instruction to adapt the second part before working the 'gram, but I imagine few solvers would complain about it. Great work cuckoo, and many thanks.

OK, here's our next challenge:

AFRAID

This could be interesting - not too many letters to play with.
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: HEAVEN FORBID - The Winner Reply with quote

[quote="anax"]For me, cuckoo's close-of-play clue is outstanding and very Times-y.

What? No Gold, silver, bronze? I was hoping for an honourable mention...
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johanssons



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Afraid Reply with quote

How to be if something went wrong in the lab? (6)
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penfold_61



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scared of short haircut. Help! (6)
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penfold_61



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parts of Biafra Idi Amin terrorised (6)
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penfold_61



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Princess rejected by a full-frontal artist is sorry (6)
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Cuckoo



Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reluctantly admitting lack of principle in Dresden bombing?

(R)AF RAID; reluctantly admitting

cuckoo
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johanssons



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerned black fear of admired regulars (6)
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7dNigePun



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreading a loud record is spun endlessly (6)
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boxwood



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Afraid Reply with quote

Uneasy version of Aida in French? No, quite the oposite (6)
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penfold_61



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cuckoo wrote:
Reluctantly admitting lack of principle in Dresden bombing?

(R)AF RAID; reluctantly admitting

cuckoo


To denote dropping the first letter should it not be principal? That would then compromise the surface, I fear.
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